Intertek's Assurance in Action Podcast Network
Intertek's Assurance in Action Podcast Network
Building Product Certification
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In this episode of Assurance in Action, Intertek’s Building & Construction team, discuss Building Product Certification. Join our guest JP Kayl, Intertek’s Vice President of Global Certification Products for Building and Construction in discussing the things construction products industry should know about product certification.
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Welcome to inter Tech's building and construction podcast, where we discuss all things related to consulting, testing, and certification for the building products and construction industry. I'm Sean Donovan with Donovan and associates, and I'll be your host for today's podcast on building product certification. Product certification is a critical element for building product manufacturers to get their products to market, to shed some light on this topic and provide some insight. We're excited to have JP kale as our guest today. JP is vice president of product certification for inter Tech's building and construction business line. Welcome JP.
Speaker 2So thank thank you, Shawn . And thank you for having me. Um, Jean fi guy , VP of global certification for inter Tech's building and construction business line. Um, I've been with Intertech for , uh , over seven years now. And , um , so essentially I've been in the testing inspection and certification industry for , uh , nearly 18 years. Um, started my career , uh , in France as an engineer. Obviously I grew up in France, you know, or started, like I said, as a fire testing engineer working at out of a fire testing lab. And then , uh , so by
Speaker 1The way, the accident I'm picking up is
Speaker 2Exactly right. Got it . As much as I'm trying to hide it, you know, it , it , it's still there. Um , and after , uh , after working for a few years in France have decided to move to the middle east , uh , where I've been running , uh , test labs and certification buddy for , um , over a decade. Mm . And then , um, then I moved , uh , to the us , uh , almost three years ago now , uh , to take on the VP role with , uh , with Intertech . So , um, again, thinking about global certification, you know, my international experience, you know, helps me tremendously in my day to day , you know, to understand, you know , uh , customers inquiries and, and provide , uh , the best service throughout really.
Speaker 1And , and I guess it truly does point out that certification is a global, a global initiative. Right. I mean, pretty much around the world certification is exactly yeah. Is of interest. So , uh , well, thanks for the background. Uh , so let's kind of jump into this topic on certification and , um, you know, can , can you provide for, for our audience kind of a general overview of , um, you know, what is building construction certification?
Speaker 2Right, right. Uh , product certification is in most cases, a regulatory requirement , um , that is mandated , uh , by the building code local authorities of jurisdiction , uh , or a particular industry , um, that regulation may actually specify , uh , an obligation if you will, by the manufacturer to , um , to certify a particular , uh , product or, or , uh , or a system. So, so in short certification is to respond to a regulatory demand, you know , uh , irrespective of what that demand is. It's not particular to the building and construction space. This is certification as a, as a whole
Speaker 1Really. And , and in general, I would assume that certifications are typically mandated, right? It's not like somebody will get certified if they don't have to get certified. Is that true ?
Speaker 2No, but we, we, we , we kind of would like it to be that way to some degree. Right . But , but essentially most of our, most of our customer come to us because, because they need to , uh , provide evidences of, of compliance again with, with a certain regulation or right . Or a , or a requirement. Yes. Yeah .
Speaker 1Okay, great. So JB, there can be some confusion, I think, with a lot of us when it comes to testing versus certification. And , uh , can you explain to the audience kind of the differences between the two,
Speaker 2Right, right. No, you're absolutely right. Sometimes there is, there is some confusion between testing and certification. Um, the two go together, certainly from a certification perspective, we, we, the testing is a critical and essential piece of the certification process. The testing is there really to determine the performance of a particular product, right? So for example , uh , you could determine, you know, sound absorption for a wall or a door, or , uh , if you want to determine the , uh , fire resistance of , uh , construction assembly , uh , any kind of , uh , performance like that, you know, is determined by testing , um, cert so certification is there to ensure that the performances of that particular product are met throughout time. So essentially, you know, we make sure via certain mechanism, you know , um , that involves, you know, factory production control and, and , and some other , uh , requirements to make sure that, you know , uh , production , uh , is, is , uh , and , and performances are met throughout, throughout time.
Speaker 1So, and again, not to make a mistake there, there is testing as part of the certification process. Exactly.
Speaker 2Right. Right. Again, like I said before, testing is essential , uh , to, to determine the product performance. Right . So it's , it's part of the certification package. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1And then is certification typically in , in a lab, or will you do certification on a , on a job site or kind of does it, or all the above? I mean, what, what is the typical certification? Um ,
Speaker 2For the most part? So testing is done in the lab, right . Uh , certification effectively can be done anywhere, right? It's , it's , it's a process, it's a system. So, so the system can be applicable, you know, you know, anywhere you want really , um, what certification provides is, is , um , that the product that leaves the manufacturing facility meets the performance. Uh , it intends to , uh , now, you know, we go beyond that now, right? Because it's certain that, you know, the way certain products are being installed on site , you know, do not necessarily conform with the way they've been tested. And we're there to make sure that, you know, installation is, is , um , uh , is where, you know, where it needs to be, you know, to ensure that the product will actually perform the way it has performed. Um , during the testing process.
Speaker 1Now, now we were talking a little bit earlier about , uh , the certification in the lab. And as you'd mentioned, even in the field with a system, but there's also certification for the fabrication or production side as well.
Speaker 2The , uh , the production is an essential part of, of the certification process. This is how we maintain certification for the most part. So , um , we go to the factories a number of times a year to verify that day to day production meets the specification of the product that's being tested. So this is when, this is how we ensure really that, that , uh , like I said, you know, day to day , uh , production meet meets , uh , meets performances.
Speaker 1Is it kinda like an audit when you go in,
Speaker 2Oh , it's very much like an audit, it's a factory audit. Yeah . It's , it's , it's a factory audit. So, so we're going to verify incoming materials , uh , processes, if , uh , production lines change, you know , if any details, change , um , I mean, we go down to packaging and , and we go to a great, you know , level of details to verify that what's , what's , again, what's being produced on a day to day basis, you know , meet meets , uh , what's being tested originally.
Speaker 1And I have to assume with the process that's involved in the longevity of this, she developed some pretty strong relationships with the clients.
Speaker 2Absolutely. I mean, certification is definitely a long term relationship , uh , and that relationship evolved around, you know , over time, you know, based on our customer's needs, you know, and, and , uh , and, and markets, I mean , uh , you know, if I think of , um , a particular project, you know , uh , that, that I've worked on several, several years ago , um, it all started with, with , uh , customer, you know, in Europe , uh , willing to access a particular market. And the request was, was, was fairly straightforward. Right. And we ended up providing certification for a very limited scope for a rather small market when it comes to , uh , the sheer market size, if you will, mm-hmm <affirmative> and that's your point, Sean ? I think it , it , it's, it's critical, you know , you have a very good relationship with your customer, you know, you understand each other very well, you know, what to expect from each other, because again, product, life cycle is going to remain, you know , um , sometimes for, for several decades. Right. Right . And you wanna make sure that that , uh , compliance is ensure throughout, you know, that, that longevity, but at the same time, you know, your customer needs might evolve over time. Right. So they might , uh , develop new products or target new markets, you know, so you have to make sure that you have the solutions that, that , uh , you know, will be suitable for , right . For your customer needs really, you know, so again, longevity and long term relationships. So this is, this is , uh , absolutely essential in our, in our, in our market.
Speaker 1So outta curiosity, a typical Intertech client for certification five, 10 years,
Speaker 2How , uh , more, more, it could be more, yeah . Some of our customers have been with us for , uh , over two decades, you know, and we thank them for that. Right. Yeah . And , and we try to service them, you know , uh , to the best of our ability. And, and like I said, you know , continue to touch base with them on a recurring, you know , basis, you know, in addition, obviously to the factory inspection form for them. Um , but really, I mean, it , it's , it's, it's what it comes down to, you know, it's, it is understanding what, what their goals are. I think this is absolutely essential when it comes to approaching a new project is what the end goal is. Right , right . Before we, we quickly embark into the testing and certification process, you know, it's absolutely critical circuit from our perspective to have a very deep understanding of what our customers are trying to achieve.
Speaker 1So I think that maybe ties into the process, which is one of my questions. When you talk about the certification process, a new client comes in and you , you have that initial meeting and discussion with the client, can you kind of take our audience through what that process is? Mm-hmm , <affirmative> from start to finish if you will, from a getting certification and working with the client.
Speaker 2Absolutely. Um , so like I said before , first of all, we wanna sit down with a customer and, and define what the end goal is. So whether it's new markets, new marketplace, or a new product, the range of the product, the complexity of the project. Um , so we want to make sure we have that understood, and that we're all on the same page. Before we come up with , uh , proposal test plan, that's going to highlight , uh , the different steps that are needed, you know, to achieve certification. Um , more and more, we try to tag a timeline, you know, onto , you know, each task, just to make sure that, you know, we , um , you know , we have an understanding with our customers as to how long this is going to take, depending on again, the complexity , uh , and whatnot . Um, and then I would add that, you know, a , a very, very critical , um , aspect and process of the certification is, is doing a pro what we call a product sampling. Um , in , in short, you know, we're going to the factory and sample the product that will subsequently be tested , um , to determine its performance, right. And for us, that, that , that task is absolutely critical because we, we need to understand how the product has been manufactured. We need to understand what will materials have been , uh , have used, you know, for that product. And because once it's tested, a lot of the testing we do is destructive, right? Mm-hmm , <affirmative> when we do fire testing, right. There's just no way you can necessarily reverse engineer, you know, what wasn't in the product, because there , there is no more product. Right ? Sure . So , um , so again, I think it's, it's, it's critical. Um, you know, we ensure that that steps is met, you know, early on. So we have all that data that we can use , uh , later on to deliver the cert , you know, the certificate, what we call certification deliverables. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> , uh , in the forms of listings, design listings, mm-hmm , <affirmative> certificate of compliance sometimes , uh , depending on the marketplace. And subsequent to that, you know, this is where we initiate, you know, what we call the , uh , factory , uh , production control and go to the factory, you know, on a current basis to make sure that , um , you know , process are met and that, you know, the , the products met meet, you know, the , uh , uh , traceability , uh , details that we've established. Pre-testing, like I said earlier,
Speaker 1And I guess it really isn't necessarily an end date , right. Because as you'd mentioned earlier, it it's really, as long as the product is out there and living the certification processes.
Speaker 2Yeah. No , AB you're absolutely right. But the things to consider also as is that products might evolve, right? The same product say raw materials are no longer available, or our customer decides to expand the market and wants to sell the same product overseas. But, you know, as opposed to shipping, you know, customers going to decide to build a new manufacturing plant, you know, across , across the ocean, you know, so it's it's, and this is where the quality control process becomes, you know, absolutely critical to what we do, because it, again, it's, it's making sure we ensure consistency throughout time, but also throughout, you know, the entire network of, of manufacturing locations, right. Because , uh , you know, could be one manufacturing locations up to, I don't know , you know , 25, you know , 30 across, across the globe. Right. And you want to ensure that consistency across the network of, of manufacturing locations. So the inspection process is , like I said before, absolutely critical to , uh , maintaining, maintaining certification.
Speaker 1So, you know, we touched on the global aspect of this and in Intertech is a very global company, and you've got background globally when it comes to certification. Do you, do you have a lot of clients that participate in multiple countries with a particular product that have to have different certifications for each country? I mean, is that a common when you're working with international
Speaker 2More and more organization , more and more, not so much in the past, but nowadays, you know, in , in today's markets, you know, every , you have to be, you have to be fast, right? You have to provide, you know, solutions to your customer. Customers want to be , um , the first in the marketplace, so speed to market is, is , is critical. And, and, and like you said, you know, and like we pointed out earlier, requirements vary from markets to markets , right . Requirements to penetrate, you know , uh , markets like , you know , uh , where , where we are today in Southeast Florida are not the same , um, as in Europe or in the middle east or, or Southeast Asia. So again, it's, it's , um , I think this is where, you know, we, we really have a very, very good value proposition, you know, in the marketplace. Right. It's because we have that, that, you know, global presence. So we have an in depth , you know, knowledge of, and you know, what the requirements are, you know , we have local teams for the most part, no , not DEC descend in every , you know , in every country, but, but we're , we're fairly near, you know , and , um , you know , we have superior technology and combined, you know , with, with our global presence, I think, you know, it , it enables us to provide what I call a one stop shop when it comes to, you know , um , having yeah. A good valid proposition to , uh , offer to your
Speaker 1Customers. Yeah, absolutely. That's great. So, JP , uh , what type of building products are typically certified and , and why are those products certified?
Speaker 2Sean , we can pretty much certify every building products, components, and assemblies , uh , that make a , you know, any, any building really, you know, so , uh , take the room we're in right now. You know, if you look around you, we can pretty much certify, you know, anything. So door windows, walls, surface finishing ceilings. We , we can certify all that for a , uh , a number of different performance , uh , ranging for, you know, acoustics like sound absorption or fire rating, fire reaction, flamability , uh , structural. But , uh , by and large, you know, most of the certification we provide revolves around safety, you know, whether it's structural safety, fire safety, and , um , you know, the ability to provide , uh , a certain level of comfort, you know, for billing owners and, and , uh , and users that, you know , products are actually fit for purpose that the products actually , uh , comply with with , uh , a building code requirement and that, you know, essentially their safeguarding, their , their , uh , their safety.
Speaker 1And I guess the safety play makes sense because that's really what the building codes are for. Right. So the certification or certifying those products, meet the codes that are designed typically for safety. So that, it's interesting. You say, like everything in the room you don't really think about, you know, is there a certification for, you know, the materials in a carpet or the ceiling tiles or stuff like that? Yeah . So it really is broad in scope when , when you think about absolutely that , uh , I know you guys do a lot of testing , uh , with fire, but , uh , fire products, fire doors, and all that, but it sounds like you're, you're , you're well expansive beyond that, as far as the products and , and the testing certification that you do.
Speaker 2Yeah. No , we already are , you know, expanding, you know, outside, you know, fire resistance . Again, I think fire for us was our bread and butter, you know, for a long time, you know, but, but we're branching out into other space. Uh , I mean, we've been very, very successful with our code compliance research report program. You know, it really encompasses, you know, multiple , um , disciplines, if you will. So fire is one aspect of, of , uh , the product compliance. But like I said before, we can look at all types of, of , uh , material testing , uh , abilities and, and also , uh , structural and, and whatever, you know, acceptance criterias and local requirements might require really, but , uh , fire remain , uh , uh , uh , you know, the bulk of, of what we do, I would say. Right . But we're branching out into a lot more now.
Speaker 1Yeah. Sounds like it. And, and I'm assuming our audience on the website pretty much has all the materials, all the testing certification you guys do. Right. I mean, that would be the go to , for them to see really what Intertech does.
Speaker 2Yes . So one , one of the benefit of certification is the ability to verify online on the Republic directory that certain products meet certain standards and certain performance. So , uh , so essentially , um, like I said, we have a directory with, with various dropdown menus ranging for, from countries to products, to , uh , manufacturer's name. And then you have access not to all the information, obviously, because there is, you know, a high level of proprietary information, right . When it comes to what we do, but, but, but you have like a , a good visibility, but , but , um, what the product specifications are. So it gives the ability , uh , for architects , uh , again, building owners , uh, building inspectors to validate team managers that, that , uh, beyond, you know, the , uh , certification deliverable we issue in the forms of documents. You can also verify online that that products are effectively , uh , certified. And sometimes we encounter counter fades, you know, and, and we have , uh , we have issues like that. And , uh , so it's important, you know, we, we look at this on a global scale.
Speaker 1Yeah, no , absolutely. And it sounds like a great resource by the way, to be able to have all that online . Absolutely . So JPB , can you just talk a little bit in a company's perspective, what the benefits are of having products certified?
Speaker 2One , one of the, one of the benefits is definitely to , um, um, to be able to have a product differentiation, you know, in the marketplace when, when you're being compared , um, against the SoCal, you know , similar product, really, you know, if you have a third party , um , that that's, you know, really working with you, mm-hmm , <affirmative> , you know , to, to prove certain compliance or certain performance, not just compliance with, with a regulation, which is, you know, obviously the , the , the , the main requirements or the main benefit of certification, but in today's marketplace, in today's world, you know, I think, I think, like I said, you know, a critical, you know, an essential added benefit is , is to be able to differentiate your product in the marketplace. I mean, clearly there are more and more suppliers around the world and because of certification manufacturers located all over the world have access to any given market. Right. Right. So I don't, I don't need to manufacture, you know, in , in Florida to have access to the south Florida, you know, market . So , uh , you can be pretty much anywhere. And I think being able to do that is, is , uh , is important. Um, one of the other benefit of, of , of certification is to provide a , a very high level of comfort, you know , to end users , um, since a renowned front party , um, essentially verifies the product quality on an ongoing basis. You know, I think it's very important. Um, you know, there are disasters and casualties all around the world when it comes to, you know, buildings and whether it's buyers or, or , or building collapsing, unfortunately, and, and having, you know, proof of compliance and especially, and , and , and that proof of compliance being, being available , uh , to an user is, is , uh , absolutely critical in today's world. And
Speaker 1I would think too, there's some value in working with a company like Intertech , which is , uh , you know , globally, you know, known in the industry for the quality work that they do. And, and I don't know if companies promote the fact, Hey , we've got our certification by Intertech , but I would, I would see some value there from if nothing else, as you kind of market your, your position with the certifications in the marketplace,
Speaker 2That's exactly right. You know, this is what's happening. And we, we encourage this, you know, we definitely encourage our customers to, to highlight the fact that, you know, they work with us, you know, and that, you know , uh , hopefully they're happy with the , with the services we , we provide, but, but like I said before, you know, it's, it's, it's a proof of, of high quality , you know, and, and beyond again, the fact that it's a necessity when it comes to complying with, with , uh , you know , code code , uh , code requirements.
Speaker 1Right. Right. Okay, great. So, you know, the marks and labeling have , have to be a big part of certification. Can you , can you talk a little bit about that aspect of it and what clients can expect when it comes to labeling their products? Once they are certified?
Speaker 2Absolutely. Uh , certification marks and , and labeling , um , really indicates that a known independent third party , uh , certification body is tested , uh , the product to the appropriate standards. And, and that certification body also ensures compliance, you know, of the manufacturing process, really. Um, so, and besides our , our online product directory of certified products, certification marks are the, the visible part, you know, of, of , uh , of the certification and, and provides end user the, the assurance that the , the product meets certain standards. So, so again, it, in most cases, it's kind of hard to visualize, you know, what, what certification brings to the table, right. Because right . It , it's, it's , uh , uh , it's a process. There is just a lot of documentation. There's a quality audit testing. You know, I think the mark again, brings that added value, you know, and demonstrate, you know , um , uh , and , and we, we are , we are , we're happy to put our name in our mark, our customer's product, because again, work alongside, you know, our customers to make sure that right , uh , uh , compliance is , is , is met. And , um , yeah, I mean, our mark is recognized throughout the work , you know, we're very proud of that, you know, and, and, and we hope that our customers are, are , uh , proud as well to be, to be able to , uh , to display that mark .
Speaker 1Now, when it comes to building code inspectors, I mean, do they, is that a mark that actually comes into play when, when it's being inspected by building code officials or not so much,
Speaker 2Especially in the , uh , in the openings industry, you know, the far door industry. Okay. Um , cuz clearly the mark is visible, you know , uh , in the form of , um , of a label that's being , uh , affixed either onto a door or onto a frame or both depending the testing standard and the type of, of door we we've been certifying.
Speaker 1And is that required by the way, you have to have a mark on a fire door, for
Speaker 2Instance, you have to have a mark on the door. Right . You know , um , and, and beyond that, you know, particularly here domestically in the us , uh , it is mandated that, that , uh , building officials or building inspectors perform an annual fire door inspection, mm-hmm <affirmative> uh , to make sure that doors still open the way they should be, they operate the way they should be. They they've been installed the way it should be. Right . Uh , so it's absolutely essential to verify that ongoing process on site as well, to make sure that the product meet meets the performance.
Speaker 1Very interesting. Well, JB, this has been great stuff. And , um, you know, thanks for your time and giving us a better understanding of product certification. Uh , is there anything that we didn't talk about that you'd like to share with the audience before we wrap things up here?
Speaker 2Yeah, Sean , um , one , one last thing I'd like to mention is , uh , one of the main advantages of, of working with it to tech is I think the fact that we're , um , a trusted global quality provider and , and , and when you look at what the world , you know, as has endured over the past, you know, couple of years , um, you know, I think right now it's, it's, it's even more predominant than it was before the pandemic. Um , a lot of requests we have is, is for, for products to access different , um, different markets. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, and I think this is where we have , um, a good value proposition to offer. We're truly global player. Uh , we're present in pretty much every continent. You know, we have a good understanding of what, what the , the requirements are and, and , um, you know, we we're , I think it puts us in a , in a very good position to help , um, our customers to , to meet their needs.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. JP, thanks a lot. And that concludes our building and construction podcast by Intertech . See you next time.